r/selfhosted 'Matrix' Network Hits 60 Million Users, Improving the Demand for Decentralized Communication

posted by u/testus_maximus on 14 Jul 2022
posted by u/warmaster on 14 Jul 2022 71▲

They only need real voice comms, and not through the janky jitsi integration. Something like Revolt chat but built with with matrix.

Edit: like in Discord

posted by u/Sudden_urchin on 14 Jul 2022 30▲

Do you mean rooms (like in Discord or Teamspeak) or just normal voice calls?

Because the latter is already working. And surprisingly well, as I found out a few days ago with a friend.

posted by u/ThellraAK on 14 Jul 2022 15▲

I wish bridges/puppets had the ability to do voice/video calls, it's not even on the roadmap for mautrix/facebook

posted by u/DeathByDenim on 14 Jul 2022 13▲

Indeed, I use this all the time to talk to my family after I managed to get them off Skype. It works really well.

Actually, it's video calling I'm talking about, but I imagine voice calling is the same but just without the video part.

I do run my own server though, not sure how matrix.org handles it with their much higher load.

posted by u/BlackScreen7270 on 14 Jul 2022 8▲

Hmm AFAIK the voice call without the janky jitsu is only working for private chats and not for group chats, isn't it?

posted by u/Cantflyneedhelp on 14 Jul 2022 21▲

They're working on it.

Element Call

posted by u/BlackScreen7270 on 14 Jul 2022 6▲

Oh thats awesome. I'm looking forward to being able to test this. Thanks for sharing

posted by u/Sudden_urchin on 14 Jul 2022 3▲

Ah kk. Yeah I’ve used it for private chats only so far. But the quality was much better than expected.

posted by u/WonderingDane on 14 Jul 2022 0▲

Just like Discord.

posted by u/testus_maximus on 14 Jul 2022 11▲

something like Element's Video Rooms ?

posted by u/ThellraAK on 14 Jul 2022 8▲

We’ve built Video Rooms backed by Jitsi (the same technology used by group calls in Element today) so we can learn more about using them sooner. Once Element Call is out of beta, we’ll pivot Video Rooms to use that instead for a more native user experience, end-to-end encryption, voice only rooms and to finally unlock features like push to talk.

posted by u/CalvinsStuffedTiger on 14 Jul 2022 3▲

Woah, end to end encrypted voice chat. Sign me up and RIP to the VOIP companies out there

posted by u/SNThrailkill on 14 Jul 2022 6▲

It's coming. It's called Element Call.

posted by u/CaptianCrypto on 14 Jul 2022 2▲

Will it have support for something like rooms where people can drop in and out?

posted by u/russjr08 on 14 Jul 2022 4▲


(It will use Element Call once that's out of beta)

posted by u/JigglyWiggly_ on 14 Jul 2022 2▲

I hope they also add good noise canceling. Discord uses Krisp and it works very well.

posted by u/testus_maximus on 14 Jul 2022 39▲

full transparency: whatever appeared to be the source of this information has been removed for some reason:

actually, Matthew (the main Matrix dude) clarified this:

the >60M users (actual figure is 64M) is based on the phone-home reporting to matrix.org that synapse optionally does
the graph looks like this:
Screenshot 2022-07-14 at 10.58.51.png
of these, around 30M are natively on Matrix (the others are bridged in from other platforms)
and of those about 14M are long-term matrix users

posted by u/Catsrules on 14 Jul 2022 18▲

And that is just the servers that have phone-home reporting turned on. So there is potentially more.

posted by u/NowFlourishThePinky on 14 Jul 2022 9▲

Yeah, usage figures for privacy-leaning services like this are always going to be very off because I presume most heavy users will not enable this sort of telemetry.

posted by u/ShimadaKambei on 14 Jul 2022 39▲

I set up my own Matrix server using the ansible playbook last week. It was surprisingly straightforward and I’ve been really impressed by how well the bridges to apps like Signal, WhatsApp, and FB messenger work.

posted by u/ScootMulner on 14 Jul 2022 8▲

I’m going to have to give this a try. I’ve been trying to get some of the bridges installed and working without much success :(

posted by u/ShimadaKambei on 14 Jul 2022 4▲

I hope it helps! I'm still a selfhosting newb and I found the documentation to be pretty easy to follow.

posted by u/SpongederpSquarefap on 14 Jul 2022 5▲

Bridges to other apps?

Does this provide 1 interface to multiple chat apps?

posted by u/Neikius on 14 Jul 2022 2▲

Yep i think so. Yet to try. Also i do recommend the Ansible installer scripts.

posted by u/Nyucio on 14 Jul 2022 2▲

Yeah. Matrix bridges basically work as clients to WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal/... and relay messages for you. If you have one person on multiple apps, they will be added as Person@Whatsapp, Person@Signal etc. So you can decide on which app to send the message.

posted by u/SpongederpSquarefap on 14 Jul 2022 1▲

This is really cool

I should self host this, would be nice to have one interface for discord, WhatsApp and signal

posted by u/artooro on 14 Jul 2022 17▲

Matrix is also really good for business use as it has good E2E encryption keeping communication safe. I have ours setup with SAML so it also benefits from 2FA which is otherwise not supported.

posted by u/jamiew0w on 14 Jul 2022 8▲

how do they know if there's 60m users if it's truly decentralized?

posted by u/testus_maximus on 14 Jul 2022 9▲

see my other post

want to know the truth? Whatever appeared to be the "source" of this info is now removed for some reason


and now I am wondering whether I should delete OP or leave it up.even though it might be misinfo, I will leave it up because transparency.

feel free to downvote me into oblivion

posted by u/MrRutrum on 14 Jul 2022 8▲

Although the actual value of 60m is in question, you can measure the growth of matix by the number of users in servers federated with the server that the matrix team serves. Its decentralized but federation allows different servers to communicate with one another, and as people join and host more servers I think the growth would be visible from the largest federated network. Although, Im not certain if users is shared information or not, but if you share the actual chat messages (they do) they could measure users that way. This is all speculation, Im not a federation pro.

posted by u/BloodyIron on 14 Jul 2022 1▲

Opt-in reporting for self-hosts, plus those are stats from the public matrix.org ecosystem they host for the public. There's plenty more self-hosted instances that opt-out for reporting.

posted by u/cbackas on 14 Jul 2022 6▲

I set up Dendrite the other day just to check it out, neat project. I don’t really have a use for it as there’s much of a chance to move my groups of discord atm but maybe one day

posted by u/s4msy on 14 Jul 2022 4▲

Started testing matrix servers selfhosted long time ago. Synapse bloated really fast and the bridges did not work really well. I know they are better now especially when I see commercial projects like beeper.

I wait for dendrite come out of beta for my next attempt.

posted by u/JoeyJoJo_1 on 14 Jul 2022 4▲

Improving the demand? Shouldn't it be "Supplying the demand"?

posted by u/testus_maximus on 14 Jul 2022 5▲

I found that part of the title strange as well. No idea how to word that in a better way. Post title is just a copy of article title.

posted by u/HrBingR on 14 Jul 2022 2▲

Increasing maybe.

posted by u/JoeyJoJo_1 on 14 Jul 2022 1▲

The fact that the network exists doesn't really increase demand for decentralized communication. The network exists to provide a solution for that demand.

posted by u/Spirited-Pause on 14 Jul 2022 1▲

Supplying the supply for the demand!

posted by u/BloodyIron on 14 Jul 2022 1▲

IMO they're too busy fixing bugs and improving the ecosystem to notice a typo in the title lol. :P

posted by u/thelonghop on 14 Jul 2022 3▲

I tried setting up a synapse server last week, but think I had an issue with my nginx conf and couldn't connect. Giving it another try this weekend.

posted by u/russjr08 on 14 Jul 2022 2▲

If you didn't use it last time, I'd heavily recommend the Matrix Docker Ansible Playbook - works fantastic!

posted by u/etgohomeok on 14 Jul 2022 3▲

I've never heard of Matrix before. Am I understanding correctly, that I can self-host a Matrix server through which I can forward all FB Messenger chats to a separate app like Element, and thus delete FB's software from my phone?

posted by u/The_Living_Cup on 14 Jul 2022 2▲

Yep, that's what I'm doing too. Also Google Chat. Also nice to have almost all my chats in one window on the desktop too

posted by u/etgohomeok on 14 Jul 2022 2▲

Thanks! Guess I know what I'm doing tonight.

posted by u/BloodyIron on 14 Jul 2022 2▲

All those behind matrix.org and Element are great people!

posted by u/somebodyknows_ on 14 Jul 2022 -5▲

A webapp with mobile support is necessary, that's why all big webchats with thousands of users are still on IRC. Also, when talking about webchats, having the users registered before is not a thing: can you imagine communities such as chat gratis where people are used to join, look what's going on, type and then register if they like, to switch to matrix when the clients pretend you to register even before looking what's going inside a room?

posted by u/Teknikal_Domain on 14 Jul 2022 3▲

Someone didn't look at guest/anonymous accounts then

posted by u/TheRidgeAndTheLadder on 14 Jul 2022 -25▲

For context: (Numbers pulled from various google search results and rounded aggressively)

Web users: 5 billion
Facebook: 3 bill
TikTok: 1 bill
Email: 4 bill
Spotify: 300 mill
Lemmy: 30,000

posted by u/FabulousGiraffe on 14 Jul 2022 3▲

Active users in a few more services:

Discord 140M in 2020 (source)

Slack 12M+ in 2021 (source)

posted by u/jamiew0w on 14 Jul 2022 1▲

Isnt discord around 350m or something?

Also those slack numbers are so bad, you'd think they'd be 10x that with covid. Not surprised either though, slack sucks but its kinda the defacto enterprise/corporate solution.

posted by u/cgke on 14 Jul 2022 -33▲

Matrix should have built an XMPP client instead of inventing their own incompatible protocol.

posted by u/gjsmo on 14 Jul 2022 2▲

First, Matrix is the protocol, not a client at all. Second, XMPP is not end to end encrypted, and so cannot support the very core of how Matrix works. And third, XMPP never really took off, this resolves a lot of its issues and is clearly more popular.

posted by u/qci on 14 Jul 2022 1▲

And Matrix ist REST (HTTP). You can pass proxies. It works better with nonpersistent connections. Then there is federation. You can run your own server and don't worry that you cannot talk to other people using other servers.